You can make a difference in the Apple Support Community!

When you sign up with your Apple Account, you can provide valuable feedback to other community members by upvoting helpful replies and User Tips.

💡 Did you know?

⏺ If you can't accept iCloud Terms and Conditions... Learn more >

⏺ If you don't see your iCloud notes in the Notes app... Learn more >

Looks like no one’s replied in a while. To start the conversation again, simply ask a new question.

Messages in iCloud vs iCloud Backup

I've avoided using iCloud backup as (to my understanding) the effort Apple has made to end-to-end encrypt iMessages is basically lost as the decryption key is saved with the backup.


Messages in iCloud, on the other hand, (again to my understanding) does not suffer from this design flaw.


I was today years old when I realized that iCloud Backup could have individual items turned off. If I left Messages in iCloud running and DISABLED Messages from being included in iCloud Backups, would I be keeping the end-to-end encryption stuff intact (as the decryption key would not need to be stored in my iCloud backup if Messages is disabled)?


Hopefully that makes sense. I'd love to stop local backups, but I'm not willing expose my personal data anymore than I need to.


Thanks!

Posted on Nov 11, 2022 1:24 PM

Reply
Question marked as Top-ranking reply

Posted on Nov 11, 2022 6:04 PM

First, your iCloud backup file itself is encrypted, so it is not as if anyone can read or use the iMessage decrypt key from you backup as they cannot read your backup at all. A backup is only decrypted when restored to an Apple Device which requires knowing your Appleid and password to do. It is encrypted during transmission to iCloud and is stored as an encrypted backup in iCloudm (iCloud security overview - Apple Support)


Second, messages in iCloud is not really a backup. Like iCloud photo and other iCloud file services, it is a synchronization service designed to keep your messages in sync across your devices (Use Messages in iCloud - Apple Support). It is not a backup since if you delete a message on a device, it is deleted in iCloud as well and across all connected devices. With iOS 16 you could retrieve it from the device itself, but that is a new feature.


Also note that when you enable messages in iCloud, you disable messages in iCloud backup (as it would be using redundant iCloud storage to continue to keep them in the backup file). So messages in iCloud backup, or messages in iCloud, are a one or the other, but not both, option.



3 replies
Question marked as Top-ranking reply

Nov 11, 2022 6:04 PM in response to akadplus3

First, your iCloud backup file itself is encrypted, so it is not as if anyone can read or use the iMessage decrypt key from you backup as they cannot read your backup at all. A backup is only decrypted when restored to an Apple Device which requires knowing your Appleid and password to do. It is encrypted during transmission to iCloud and is stored as an encrypted backup in iCloudm (iCloud security overview - Apple Support)


Second, messages in iCloud is not really a backup. Like iCloud photo and other iCloud file services, it is a synchronization service designed to keep your messages in sync across your devices (Use Messages in iCloud - Apple Support). It is not a backup since if you delete a message on a device, it is deleted in iCloud as well and across all connected devices. With iOS 16 you could retrieve it from the device itself, but that is a new feature.


Also note that when you enable messages in iCloud, you disable messages in iCloud backup (as it would be using redundant iCloud storage to continue to keep them in the backup file). So messages in iCloud backup, or messages in iCloud, are a one or the other, but not both, option.



Nov 12, 2022 5:49 PM in response to akadplus3

In order to decrypt anything, someone needs more than just your device screen lock passcode. Secure Enclave uses that as part of generating the encryption keys, but it also uses hardware information from your trusted devices (those Apple devices you have actively signed into iCloud with your 2FA enabled AppleID). So to decrypt anything someone needs to be able to restore your backup to one of your trusted devices and only then would your screen lock passcode grant them human readable access to the data.


So someone guessing your screen lock passcode and having access to your backup file is still sol without access to one of your trusted devices. Secure enclave’s algorithm for generating encryption keys needs a lot more input than merely the screen lock passcode. That comes up here often when people’s kids or someone else disable their device but they know their screen lock passcode and hope to recover their data. But that is impossible as the disablement of a device deletes the data encryption keys. Those were uniquely generated by Secure Enclave when the screen lock passcode was first set, but the algorithm uses device hardware ID information as well when generating the keys. Even when set up again with the same screen lock passcode, new, unique encryption keys would be generated.


Note from the article I linked, that things like messages are not recoverable via iCloud account recover: “If you forget your password or device passcode, iCloud Data Recovery Service can help you decrypt your data so you can regain access to your photos, notes, documents, device backups, and more. Data types that are protected by end-to-end encryption—such as your Keychain, Messages, Screen Time, and Health data—are not accessible via iCloud Data Recovery Service. Your device passcodes, which only you know, are required to decrypt and access them. Only you can access this information, and only on devices where you're signed in to iCloud.”


So ultimately access to end to end encrypted data is only possible on a persons own trusted device(s) which not even Apple has. So access is tied to securing both your device (screen lock passcode) and your AppleID (via the system of trusted devices established under the 2 factor authentication security system).


Personally, I just use messages in iCloud so my messages are the same across my 7 Apple devices. If I ever did need an archival backup of texts, I would spend the $30 or so bucks for some MacOS archival program like PhoneView and just archive those texts as txt or pdf files. Even iCloud backup is not an archival backup as it is incremental every day and does not keep all past copies like Time Machine does. So at most you can recovery messages from an iCloud backup from a couple or few days back, but no further.


P.S. I don’t claim to be an expert on Secure Enclave, nor how Apple has implemented its features with online security and AppleID 2FA or other changes over the years. But Apple’s commitment to data security and data privacy clearly includes integrating their offerings through both security of data on devices as well as data security for their online services and the transmission to and from devices and Apple online services. There is extensive, publicly available Apple developer documentation on Secure Enclave, but much if it is very technical. There is less public information for iCloud since that security is not something public developers get too deep an inside look at (for obvious reasons).


Nov 12, 2022 5:00 PM in response to Michael Black

Thanks for the reply, Michael!


In essence, all I want is the "synchronization" provided by Messages in iCloud. I'm ok not having a true "backup" of messages to preserve end-to-end encryption (outside of the built-in "backup" provided by having more than one device signed into iMessage).


My concern is this statement: "For Messages in iCloud, if you have iCloud Backup turned on, your backup includes a copy of the key protecting your messages." Messages in iCloud are end-to-end encrypted until you enable iCloud backups. The reason for that is to make a restore process slightly less annoying? I can document my passwords/keys just like you do (for example) when enabling FileVault.


What I was hoping for (iCloud backup using sync w/o backing up messages) is not possible..? It doesn't make sense that a group of Apple engineers spent so much time getting end-to-end encryption working across multiple devices, and then the iCloud backup team overrode it.


This issue would be moot if Apple couldn't access your backups. However, they can given that iCloud Data Recovery Services exist in case you forget your password. It says that "certain sensitive information, such as your Keychain, Screen Time, and Health data, Apple uses end-to-end encryption" and are only available with your device passcode. In most cases, that is a numeric 4-8 digit code that any app could guess in a matter of seconds.


In my humble opinion, this "gap" in security the second you enable iCloud backup seems to present a backdoor for Apple (or whoever should make a request to Apple) to poke around in conversational data that would otherwise be inaccessible to them.


What am I missing? Thanks again for your response!

Messages in iCloud vs iCloud Backup

Welcome to Apple Support Community
A forum where Apple customers help each other with their products. Get started with your Apple Account.