New files added to folder not getting inherent permissions

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Level 1

4 points

New files added to folder not getting inherent permissions

I have a Mac Mini that was recently updated to Version 15.2 (Build 24C101)

I have a network shared folder on this machine, that was working before the update. The update made the folder lose its shared permissions and I was able get those back by turning sharing off and back on and re setting it up the "Apply to enclosed items" to the user account we are using on it

The issue now is I have a nightly backup my NAS runs on this folder that uses this user permission. It was working before this OS update, and it does grab all the files that were re granted permission from "Apply to enclosed items". But some nights the backup fails stating a file or two does not have permission. If I go back to the folder and "Apply to enclosed items" again or if I give the one file the correct permission it will work on the next back up and everything works.

We add new files to this folder daily, but I can't seem to lock down what is causing this or a fix that holds for it.

So new files are and aren't getting the permission of this user, I am wondering if I make this user the folders "owner" if that would do anything?

and help? Thank you in advance.

Posted on Jan 20, 2025 7:30 AM

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Answer 1

Jan 21, 2025 10:05 AM in response to nfi22

It's been more than 5 years and Apple still has not properly fixed inherit permissions. See my old post from 2019: Files & Folders not inheriting ACL permis… - Apple Community

To expand, you are dealing with a couple of issues. The first is POSIX owner (the user who creates the file), POSIX permissions (basic UNIX permissions for user, group, and other), and ACLs (access control lists) which provide advanced permissions including the ability for inheritance to children and descendants.

In a shared folder setup, you likely have a users assigned to a group. And the group is used to grant access to the shared folder. Let's say you have a user named John and another named Mary. When John creates files, the POSIX owner of the file is John. When Mary creates files, the POSIX owner is Mary. Now, some apps, looking at you Adobe, and some processes (like the old drag from locked media issue) will create restrictive POSIX permissions. For example, the folder/file may be set to rw- --- --- for a file or drwx --- --- for a folder. In this case, the user has access, but the group and other are not permitted. Thus, even though John and Mary may be in the same group, the person who did not create the data has no rights. This is where ACLs come into play.

But, Apple's UI for inheritance has been broken since they folded file sharing into the base OS. If you want this to work as you want, you will need to use the Terminal to add the missing file_inherit and directory_inherit attributes to the parent folder.

This can work. But you must embrace command line.

Hope this (and the old post) are helpful.

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Answer 2

Jan 21, 2025 12:42 PM in response to nfi22

Yes. Product Feedback - Apple

And, if you have an Apple ID, you can submit bugs, feature requests, and more through the Feedback Assistant app. It is a little hidden, but go to /System/Library/Core Services/Applications (or use Spotlight to find it).

Now, submitting and getting feedback are two different topics. If you have a developer account, you can open support tickets and get feedback. If you are an Enterprise customers and you have AppleCare for Enterprise, you will get a dedicated SE who can assist with escalation of bugs and suggestions.

Sadly, I think we've submitted this bug/request at least once for every OS since it was broken and there is no traction. I feel the number of customers still using Mac as a server is so small that Apple is not putting any engineering efforts toward fixes or enhancements. That is my opinion. Oh, and since the ACL UI is effectively busted, we are now seeing the few remaining file servers run without permission enforcement.

Making it work is not hard. And once the correct ACE is assigned to the parent folder, there is no maintenance. But for those not familiar with all the commands, it can be daunting.

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Answer 3

nfi22 Author

Level 1

4 points

Jan 21, 2025 10:24 AM in response to Strontium90

Ugh, this is what I was afraid of, some massive issue that Apple has let slip through the cracks. When researching this I did find your 2019 post, but given its age I thought (and hoped) it did not apply to my situation. But there is very little about this issue and this older one still applying to the current OS and or situation. (perhaps you could reply to the 2019 one and state still an issue in 2025?)

I think the best thing for me to do is then just do a backup of the entire machine with our NAS oppose to just the 1 folder.

I wish there was (and maybe there is, and I just don't know it) a way to directly submit errors/issue to Apple and get their status on working on them.

Thank you for the reply and info and I will have to come up with a different solution.

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Answer 4

Jan 21, 2025 11:41 PM in response to Strontium90

Thanks for the note about Feedback Assistant app. It seems the same info is also at:

https://feedbackassistant.apple.com

The Feedback Assistant page might be pretty much a bit-bucket too, but maybe not quite the direct-to-the-shredder type as the product feedback page.

During the last two years I have sent feedback there about two long-standing IMHO severe repeatable bugs with details but have not got any reply. But I once did get a reply: I sent feedback at 2008 and got a reply at 2014 saying "Thank you for filing this bug report. This is an older report and much has changed since it was filed. We are closing it."

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